The following is a post from Randy Lovegreen, an elder of Sovereign Grace Church:
Should we?
Well, until the show which aired on August 18th, 2010, I didn’t. Sure, I knew he was a member of the Mormon church, but other than a few language oddities such as his constant reference to “Heavenly Father” and his consistent use of the phrase “the scriptures” instead of the Bible, I never really saw much LDS theology in his show.
That all changed yesterday.
Now, my point in writing this isn’t to go out of my way to pick a fight with the Mormon Church, but my role as an Elder in a Christian church compels me to defend the flock against wolves, and in this case, Beck has crossed the line into “wolfdom.” Because so many Christians watch and enjoy his show, including many in my own church, I was forced to offer a response.
The premise of his August 18th show was this:
“The Native Americans were descended from an ancient civilization that existed on this continent in pre-historic and Biblical times. This civilization, had large cities and a very advanced culture, including a writing system and higher religious thought”
Beck went so far as to say, “The ancient Indians actually had religious writings which were a proto-Hebrew Bible”. He also offered the “fact” that the Native Americans were descended from the Jews.
He went on to cite various “scholars”, “experts” and “archaeologists” who support this claim.
Not only that, but he mentioned a “shocking DVD”, a documentary, that tells us the true story, a story that has been covered up by mainstream science for political reasons. He even gave the web address for the DVD he was talking about. If history is any indication, he just made those filmmakers very wealthy.
This is powerful stuff. Where have I heard this before?
These are the beliefs held by the Mormon Church, and written about by Joseph Smith in the Book of Mormon.
What Beck didn’t mention in his show, and what caused me to speak out, was the fact that he presented this as if it were settled scientific fact. He also failed to mention that every single one of his experts, scholars and archaeologists were Mormon apologists.
Rick Stout, the filmmaker that produced the DVD, screens his films at - wait for it - The LDS Film Festival.
Beck also failed to mention that the 19th Century scientists he referenced with regard to the “Block Hebrew” writing found on this continent have been thoroughly debunked, and not one single scientific body accepts their thesis. Not only that, but there is not one shred of evidence that there were “cities as large as Los Angeles, Boston or London” on this continent in pre-historic times as Beck claims.
So what? Why does it matter if he teaches this, or Christians buy into this?
Here’s why.
The entire Mormon belief system is built on the idea that one of the twelve tribes of Israel came to North America in the years before Christ. They settled here, and developed these “advanced civilizations”. Because of this, Christ, when He finished his work with the Apostles, actually came to America to share the “gospel” with this lost tribe. This visit, along with the “true gospel,” was recorded on golden tablets, which laid buried until the angel Moroni told Joseph Smith where to find them. The reason for the angel’s revelation? Christianity had become apostate, and all of their creeds were corrupt, and all of their followers were deceived. Therefore, it fell to Smith not to “reform” the Christian church, but to “restore” it.
So are Mormons Christian, or not?
Well, they claim to be. In fact, Beck claims to be. But lets compare what they believe with orthodox Christianity on three key issues.
On God:
The orthodox Christian view is that there is one God, Creator of all things, holy, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in a loving unity of three equally divine Persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Having limitless knowledge and sovereign power, God has graciously purposed from eternity to redeem a people for Himself and to make all things new for His own glory.
The Mormon view is that there is one god FOR THIS PLANET, and that this god is but one of many, many gods who are each overseeing their own planet. The Mormon god is not eternally self-existent, but is nothing more than a man, who through “eternal progression” achieved godhood and was rewarded with a planet of his own. The Mormons believe that they may one day become gods themselves, get their own planet, and spend eternity having endless celestial sex with their many wives for the purpose of populating their planet with future gods. The fifth president of the LDS church, Lorenzo Snow famously said, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.”
On Jesus:
The orthodox Christian view is that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, fully God and fully man, one Person in two natures. Jesus, Israel’s promised Messiah, was conceived through the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived a sinless life, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father as our High Priest and Advocate.
The Mormon view is that Jesus is not eternally self existent, but that he is the first of the children of the Mormon god. They also believe that Satan was the second of this god’s children, making Jesus and Lucifer spirit brothers. In Mormon theology, Jesus was created, and is not in fact, divine.
The Bible:
The orthodox Christian view is that God has spoken in the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, through the words of human authors. As the verbally inspired Word of God, the Bible is without error in the original writings, the complete revelation of His will for salvation, and the ultimate authority by which every realm of human knowledge and endeavor should be judged. Therefore, it is to be believed in all that it teaches, obeyed in all that it requires, and trusted in all that it promises.
The Mormon view is that the Bible is the Word of God in so far as it is translated correctly. The Mormons also believe that the Bible is only ONE of the several ways that God has spoken to his people. Included with the Bible is the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. These four books are known to the LDS church as the “Standard Works”. The Mormons also believe that God has spoken, and continues to speak today through his prophet. Where the pronouncements of the prophet contradict the writings in their scriptures, they hold to the teachings of the prophet.
It is clear from looking at just these three issues that Mormonism and Christianity are incompatible. If you don’t believe in the God of the Bible, you don’t believe in God at all. If you get Jesus wrong, you miss the Gospel completely. Mormonism is particularly insidious because it SOUNDS so much like Christianity. Remember, we may use the same words, but we are using different dictionaries.
This is why Glenn Beck’s stealth Mormon apologetics are so dangerous. No doubt thousands of Christians will order that DVD. Many will believe what they say, and will do so without realizing that not only is it scientifically inaccurate, but it is laying the groundwork for a false Gospel.
Beck is using his show to break the ice for Mormon theology, and promoting a worldview that supports the beliefs of his church. His hour long infomercial for Mormon history only makes it easier for those well groomed young men on bicycles to strike up a conversation, and lead folks astray.
We must all be praying for Mr. Beck. We must pray that God would open his eyes to the truth, and change his heart so he might see the glorious Gospel of Grace.
Beck wields enormous influence in the conservative Christian community, therefore, it is important that we are aware of the origins of the things he is teaching as “fact”.
On this same show, Beck spent five minutes talking about how Satan is a deceiver, and how he uses subtle lies to subvert the truth and lead people astray. Irony.
As Christians, we must constantly be on guard against anything which may seek to corrupt our faith. This includes charming conservative talk show hosts, even if they are on Fox News.
Posts
44 comments:
I am a Christian. I study. I pray. And this letter reminded me of why I have not attended church for 37 years. It's the "my miracle is true and yours is fabricated" argument. As long as our faith does not encourage us to stone and behead each other, then praise God! As my Quaker father explained it, God fills the heart of the man who alows him in.
I have followed Glenn Beck for a few years now and the ONLY thing that has ever really bothered me is that he is a self-proclaimed Mormon. This is a religion that I do not agree with. As long as he kept it off air(radio and TV) I didn't have to deal with it. It has nothing to do with his political commentary which I do agree with. Now he had to spoil it and bring it up front. The Mormon religion is wrong biblically.
Jesus the Christ said "follow me." He never said go out and about and make up religions with doctrines that state this and that. Christianity is NOT a religion. It is a FOLLOWING of The Way of Jesus, the only son of God.
The End.
Mr. Lovegreen summed up what was sticking in my craw about Mr. Beck's episode of 18 August. I understand it's an opinion/entertainment show, however am usually impressed by the well referenced opinions.
I know enough of the mormon faith to quickly understand the "lost civilization" discussion was supportive of the mormon doctrine and beliefs--and was quite surprised to see no connection or disclaimer produced during the hour. Somewhat disappointed, am I.
PS. In response to post from K + W: I didn't read hatred in Mr . Lovegreen's post, rather the opposite--he encourages readers to pray for Mr. Beck. I would welcome further insight (read, specfics) of the gross inaccuracies or flaws your "trained eye" perceives.
I love Glenn Beck and yes I am Christian. Beck encourages us on his show to study the facts and the history for ourselves. I did. And the evidence against the Native American being a descendent of the Jew is overwhelming and has been thoroughly debunked. Beck claims to be a truth seeker, but clearly he needs to study a bit more on this one.
Please check out www.mazeministry.com and the dvd titled "DNA vs The Book of Mormon" in the bookstore for the other side to the issue of whether or not North American Indians are descendants of the Israelites.
K&W - I don't see any hatred in what the author of this post stated. The facts stated are easily accessible to anyone interested in learning more about the Mormon faith. The facts stated are not what Mormon missionaries share with people...these are facts that people are introduced to once they've been brought into and established into the Mormon church.
I don't hate Mormons, but I do hate the deception that they are under. By the way, I grew up in SLC and have family members that are Mormon, so this is personal to me.
Take a minute and set aside the doctrinal arguments and the anti-Mormon sentiments. If indeed there is evidence (and there is!) of block Hebrew and Phoenician language inscriptions among Native American artifacts, it's there to be studied and evaluated.
Instead of dismissing it, how about examining the evidence? Beck didn't tie these discoveries to the Book of Mormon directly, but if the evidence supports that there was contact between ancient Americans and the Middle East, it's worth looking at.
Of course, the best evidence of all is the Book of Mormon. For almost two centuries, we have asked people to read the Book of Mormon and ask God if it's true. Nearly 300,000 people a year convert to the Church worldwide because they got an answer.
Remember James 1:5-6. It doesn't say if you lack wisdom, ask your pastor or your neighbor or even Google for it. It says, if you lack wisdom, ask of God and he'll give it to you.
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
11 Timothy 4:3
Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Name Know the Word of Truth Gods Word the final Authority and you will spot the counterfeit.
Excellent work. You and I are kindred thinkers. Beck always has been a danger, but now is a serious danger to Christianity. Thanks for your expose, well said, and grace filled. Thank you brother.
Tom Spithaler
Sr. Pastor
Calvary Chapel Bonney Lake, Wa.
I am a Christian and have been thankful for people such as Glenn Beck and David Barton who have stepped forward to shine the light on our nations Godly heritage and the Judeo/Christian principles upon which our government was founded. The history that has been expounded upon on Glenn Beck's program has been most helpful in debunking the myths perpetuated by the progressives in our culture.
That is why I was so disappointed to see Mr. Beck interject a pseudo-history of Native Americans into the mix. This pseudo-history is declared by the Book of Mormon and is completely unproven with nothing but faith to substantiate the claim. This one show can be used to cast doubt upon and disparage all of the true and accurate history that has before been discussed. That is how the followers of Saul Alinsky operate.
As an early Christian on Okinawa, Japan, I was surrounded by Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Buddhists. The one group I struggled with for some time were the Mormons. They gave me a Book of Mormon and said I should read it and pray to God for the truth. I did pray and found direct contradictions in the Book of Mormon to the Bible. The one that has stuck with me for all this time is 2 Nephi 25:23 compared to Ephesians 2:8-9.
Book of Mormon
2 Nephi 25:23 - For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
Bible, King James Version
Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Notice upon whom our salvation rests. Both references say it is the grace of God, but in Mormonism there is something that you must do to fully accomplish the work of salvation. So, the Bible teaches grace; Mormonism teaches grace plus works.
The Bible also teaches grace plus works:
James 2:20, "...faith without works is dead."
So Ephesians 2:8 says "For by grace are ye saved through faith" and James 2:20 says "faith without works is dead."
Therefore, by grace you are saved after all (the works) you can do.
It's probably just splitting hairs though. All Christians believe that grace is a gift; so do Mormons. You can't EARN grace. But both the Bible and the Book of Mormon teach that you do have to do SOMETHING to gain salvation. God's grace in a vacuum doesn't guarantee salvation or else every single person on Earth would be saved and there would be no need to preach about Jesus.
I grew up in and still live in Utah. In fact I grew up as a Mormon.
The issue I have with the whole "splitting hairs" comment is that we are not splitting hairs.
Those of us that actually understand Christianity (Yes by God's Grace I am no longer a mormon!!) after leaving mormonizm know that Grace is all we need. Ephesians 2: 8-9 is stating that we only need Grace to get into heaven. Now when someone (usually a mormon) throws out that the Bible says that "faith without works is dead" to try and prove their point, usually throw out that verse out of it's intended context and they need to be taught how to actually study the Bible.
The Bible verse that says "faith without works is dead" is stating that once a person has been born again of the Spirit and they have placed all of their faith in Christ as their Savior and ONLY pathway to God, then they will be going to heaven. However the word Works in that passage is referring to the fact that once you are saved God will start to use you to complete HIS works. The works you do are not going to save you because you have already been saved, now the fruit of the LORD (works) start shinning through.
Look at the thief on the cross. That man went to heaven! The reason why I know this is because Christ told him he would be with him that day in heaven.
(Luke 23: 42-43 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”)
The thief on the Cross next to Christ joined Christ in heaven that day by his FAITH alone. He died shortly after that therefore not giving that thief any time to do any "works"....
The way I like to explain this is easy.
Mormons like to put the cart before the horse (works and then grace after all they can do)
Christians like to put the horse before the cart. (Faith / Grace and then works of the father (the saved man bears much fruit))..
Chad,
Thanks for posting this. Dave Buck at RiverLakes did a wonderful sermon on this topic this summer, and this reminded me a lot of it.
Brandy
Been Both
The biggest difference between the Mormons and and Orthodox Christianity is they believe in modern day revelation, hence the Prophet Thomas S. Monson. They believe that God loves us as much as his followers in ancient times and gives direction through His prophets. That being said.... One of the reasons that Mormons don't like to talk religion much is because they are always told that their beliefs are "wrong." Then I have 2 questions for those that agree they ARE wrong. Who are you to tell them what and how to believe and how do you know?
"The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done."
It has, and it continues to do so, at the current rate of 300,000+ per year in 176 countries and territories.
In July of 1844 after the Prophet Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum were martyred, a prominent New York newspaper declared "Thus ends Mormonism." Total church population was around 26,146 at the time. It very well may have already passed 14 million this year already. It's not going anywhere.
Christ HAS restored His church on the earth in these the latter-days in all its fullness. Everything that we need for our happiness and to return to live with Him one day is found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We invite all to learn more, to read the Book of Mormon with an open heart (NOT presupposed prejudices) and pray to your Father in Heaven and ask him if it is not true. You must ask with a sincere heart, being willing to accept His answer and act upon it, and only then will He manifest the truth of it unto you by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Fight, argue, and defame until you are blue in the face, the fullness of His gospel has been restored on the earth.
LDS Growth Chart
Nathan,
Islam is growing at a far greater rate than mormonism, does that make it true? Atheism is growing rapidly, is that true? It is hardly a shock that unregenerate people are drawn to a false faith that promises them the same lie that Satan whispered in Eve's ear: you can become like God.
The much ballyhooed statistics about mormon church growth (which never seem to include the enormous numbers of people who leave mormonism but remain "members") has nothing to do with the validity of mormonism. Nor does praying about book written by a clever young man in the 19th century. Mormonism stands opposed to the teachings of the Bible and only one can be true. From a god who is a created being to a "restored" priesthood that seeks to supplant the Great High Priest, mormonism has as little to do with Christianity as Buddhism.
The sad thing Nathan, is that those numbers are lies!
Those are names in a database, not real membership. Not real people that would say they are Mormon.
You likely don't know about the thousands upon thousands of baptisms that are and were done in impoverished countries to those people who could get handouts from the church "if only they were baptized". Guess what? they are on the records now as members.
You also are not aware of the tens of thousands more that were baptized so they could be part of the church's local baseball and soccer and baskeball teams. You had to be a member to play. Guess what? Those kids are now on the roles as members.
The church membership rates are falling like rocks in western cultures where there is internet and access to information.
Missionary send offs are way up, baptisms...waaay down.
The 300,000 + a year is bogus (unless you count in child births in the church).
The attrition rates are insanely high.
Almost as high as you have to be on the "Good feelings" that are induced by LDS missionaries to get you to be baptized.
Voltaire is credited as saying "I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it."
While Glen Beck is a Mormon, he is certainly not Mormonism's front man. I don't agree with everything he says, but ...I certainly respect his right to say it.
As I read thru your blog I kept thinking to myself "REALLY? With all the death, destruction, and HORRIBLE things happening in the world today, you wanna get on your soapbox about a church that doesn't believe EXACTLY like you believe but still goes about doing good?" Mormons supplied and continue to supply the largest amount of aid to disasters such as Haiti. In my town, I observe Mormons every single day doing things that are very Christlike. "By their fruits ye shall know them." Perhaps time might be better spent serving others than by tearing them down for their beliefs.
Your blog, sir, is sheer bigotry, and bigotry in any form is dangerous, and speaks loudly of fear and intolerance. Two things that have nothing to do with what Christ taught.
Lori,
you wanna get on your soapbox about a church that doesn't believe EXACTLY like you believe but still goes about doing good?"
This is not an issue over infant or adult baptism or the endtimes. This is a debate over the Gospel of Jesus Christ. A church that claims that Jesus is the brother of Satan and that God is an exalted man is pantheistic paganism, not monotheistic Christianity. Baptists and Presbyterians can have debates over secondary issues that fall into the not "EXACTLY" category because they agree on the essentials of the faith. Mormonism falls outside of that sphere.
I don't care how many good works you do, if you deny Christ, you cannot be "Christlike". Christ and the apostles reserved their harshest rebukes for those who sought to cover unbelief with good works while blaspheming God and that fits mormonism perfectly.
I live in Bakersfield and am extremely embarrassed by this article. At a time when Mr. Beck is shouting at the top of his lungs for "Americans" to turn to God the author is attempting to turn people off of Mr. Beck simply because he disagrees on a few points of doctrine.
God Fearing people need to stand together and celebrate a common faith in Christ.
This article is the wrong direction folks and I trust most readers will see thought it.
I know a lot of Mormons and they are wonderful yet non perfect people who put a whole lot of faith in God and try to do the right thing.
If you were to listen to the Beck radio show from that same day you would have heard his non-Mormon counter parts making the same arguments about studying early American history.
I have spent many years studying ancient American history as a hobby and I feel Beck nailed it when he made the point that we should learn about the many many cultures that came to the Americas at different times. Doing less would be intentionally ignorant.
So on behalf of reasonable people of Bakersfield sorry about this article.
The evidence of the Book of Mormon is not in the 'facts' that he brings to the table, just as there aren't 'facts' to prove the bible! Christianity is an act of faith that unbelievers will never understand. So it is with the Book of Mormon. Although there is overwhelming evidence to suggest the distinct possibility of the truth of this record, with numerous credible sources from Mormon and Non-Mormon alike,the truth of it is still an act of faith. Mormons are Christian as no other faith in the history of mankind. They believe in Jesus Christ, the bible, and in continuing revelation and guidance. Their record of faith is unimpeachable for following his teachings. To dismiss them so casually without studing their doctrines and beliefs is shallowness to the extreme. To say they are not christian shows an utter lack of effort and knowledge of this American born faith, a faith that will yet usher in the millenial reign of their king, Jesus Christ.
Glenn Beck and George Whitefield - http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=8174
Glenn Beck and Martin Luther King - http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=8548
Glenn Beck and Evangelicals - http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=8788
Glenn Beck Takes Another Bite Out of the Apple - http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=8821
Thanks for helping to expose a religion which poses as Christianity but is not. Makes you wonder why a religion tries to misrepresent itself... maybe the truth can't stand the light of day?
I'm LDS. I am not ashamed of it. I ask a question. Why the anger and hate for believers of my faith. We have never attacked your faith and beliefs. We believe in Jesus, the son of God, as the savior of all mankind. What is your definition of Christian? The only imaginable reason I can fathom for peoples hate, is fear. We believe we have found the truth. Our faith doesn't need your validation, and that must scare you. We will not attack other faiths, it is beneath us, as we follow Christ's example. I hope that the love of Christ will touch all peoples hearts, then all people, of all faiths, could live in harmony. Ignorance on the other hand, has no place in my life, or in the life of any Christian.
i
I love it!! It is so good to see people argue and disagree with each other over Christianity. Your comments are fueled by strong emotions that will cause people to do and say anything even at the expense of tearing apart their organization that they represent. Christianity will never be unified because the person that it is named after never wrote one word down, not one word. It is all based on hear say and re-telling of stories. For your beliefs to become real and stay real you have to reinforce them constantly through prayer (meditation), reading material that supports your beliefs and spending time with like minded people (church). As soon as you stop doing these things the beliefs start to fade and change but there is an answer for that and it's Satan. Fear is a huge part of control. If you can stir people's emotions through fear then you have all the control. All religions have the component of fear in them, with out it they don't work.
politicians get elected based on fear not hope, Glen Beck stays popular and very rich based on fear not hope. In this age of too much information coming at us constantly the only way to get noticed is to be more outrageous than what we are used to seeing. We live in a Jerry Springer mentality when it comes to entertainment. Just because someone is popular and has a huge stage to perform on does not mean that they are speaking the truth.
For those of you that think that the Mormon church does not have a vested interest in Glen Beck take Glen's advice and do your research...into the Mormon church. They require their members to tithe 10% of their gross income (how much does Glen make?)in order to stay worthy to go through the temples so after they die they get to the highest level of heaven, they call it the Celestial Kingdom. This is where you will be taught God's deepest teachings and eventually become a God yourself and have your own world to rule over.
Pretty deep and complicated stuff huh?
One of the goals of the Mormon church is teach every person on earth their gospel and try to baptize them. Now they have Glen Beck that is reaching millions of people slowly weaving the Mormon doctrine into his silky smooth talk and mixing it up with loose facts to make it appear legit. Just the fact that we are talking about Mormonism will cause some people to look into it and possibly join their team.
I know this is a long winded post but my basic point is this...lighten up! You might be living a life style that works for you but that does not mean it will work for other people. I believe in one God and myself. Between the two of us we have done pretty well. I will have to wait for the next life to find out the rest. The bumper sticker on my car says; Dear God, I love you but I fear your followers! As long as you people keep attacking your own kind you will stand divided. Remember that life is about one thing - Love.
Peace :)
I love it!! It is so good to see people argue and disagree with each other over Christianity. Your comments are fueled by strong emotions that will cause people to do and say anything even at the expense of tearing apart their organization that they represent. Christianity will never be unified because the person that it is named after never wrote one word down, not one word. It is all based on hear say and re-telling of stories. For your beliefs to become real and stay real you have to reinforce them constantly through prayer (meditation), reading material that supports your beliefs and spending time with like minded people (church). As soon as you stop doing these things the beliefs start to fade and change but there is an answer for that and it's Satan. Fear is a huge part of control. If you can stir people's emotions through fear then you have all the control. All religions have the component of fear in them, with out it they don't work.
politicians get elected based on fear not hope, Glen Beck stays popular and very rich based on fear not hope. In this age of too much information coming at us constantly the only way to get noticed is to be more outrageous than what we are used to seeing. We live in a Jerry Springer mentality when it comes to entertainment. Just because someone is popular and has a huge stage to perform on does not mean that they are speaking the truth.
For those of you that think that the Mormon church does not have a vested interest in Glen Beck take Glen's advice and do your research...into the Mormon church. They require their members to tithe 10% of their gross income (how much does Glen make?)in order to stay worthy to go through the temples so after they die they get to the highest level of heaven, they call it the Celestial Kingdom. This is where you will be taught God's deepest teachings and eventually become a God yourself and have your own world to rule over.
Pretty deep and complicated stuff huh?
One of the goals of the Mormon church is teach every person on earth their gospel and try to baptize them. Now they have Glen Beck that is reaching millions of people slowly weaving the Mormon doctrine into his silky smooth talk and mixing it up with loose facts to make it appear legit. Just the fact that we are talking about Mormonism will cause some people to look into it and possibly join their team.
I know this is a long winded post but my basic point is this...lighten up! You might be living a life style that works for you but that does not mean it will work for other people. I believe in one God and myself. Between the two of us we have done pretty well. I will have to wait for the next life to find out the rest. The bumper sticker on my car says; Dear God, I love you but I fear your followers! As long as you people keep attacking your own kind you will stand divided. Remember that life is about one thing - Love.
Peace :)
I'm reading a lot of fearful comments about how scary and deceptive Mormons are. Read Matthew 7:16,20: "By their fruits ye shall know them." I see a religion of love, goodwill, service, and followers of Jesus Christ. If you apply that scripture to your life and really get to know Mormons in your community, your fear will dissolve. Like Glenn advocates, let's come together as believers in God and make a difference in our beloved country.
Those who argue about Glen Beck's Mormonism are missing the point. Beck is a charlatan who is interested in one thing: ratings. His understanding of American history is abysmal. Frankly, he's a joke, and a laughing-stock among serious thinkers. I tend to think less of those who believe Beck has anything of interest to say.
Mormonism is incompatible with the Bible and what it teaches. That is the bottom line. I'm not going to get into the "my religion is right, yours is wrong game." Christianity is NOT about "religion." It IS about a relationship with Jesus Christ! Period.
"Let God be true, but every man a liar." -Romans 3:4
BTW, for those wanting to know ALL the truths (facts) about Mormonism go to: http://carm.org That is an excellent site to look up and research "cults," which is what Mormonism is. It doesn't matter what I say or what anybody says. What matters is what the "source" says. And that is the Bible (for Christians) and the BOM (Book of Mormon) for the Mormons, not to mention all their other "holy books." Do NOT be deceived by Beck's "religion!" I like Beck. I agree with "most," not all of his political opinions, but he is NOT a Christian, and his "scriptures" are mostly stealth references to the Book of Mormon which is a work of Satan! I've read it. And I believe it was literally inspired by the devil himself. I don't believe Joseph Smith himself or any man for that matter was clever enough to write the Book of Mormon. I have also studied the religion of Mormonism and lived in Palmyra, NY where it originated, spoke with their Elders, and missionaries, debated them and trust me, they were "baffled" when I came at them with the Holy Bible! Like I said, my words don't matter, it's what the Source says and has written. And my book, my Scriptures, the Bible tell me that in the last days there will be false prophets/religions rising because they know their time is almost up. The devil knows he's been defeated. Do you? He uses these cults to "confuse" people and divide people.
"For God is NOT the Author of confusion, but of peace." -1 Cor. 14:33
Satan is the Author of Confusion!
I respect what you are trying to do, but if yo had been at the rally in Washington on Saturday as I was you would be ashamed of this post now.
What Mr. Beck and his non-LDS associates are trying to do for this nation is commendable. He is restoring the faith tradition and religious undergirding that established the greatness we have seen in America.
The fact is Gleen Beck has shown remarkable restraint concerning his Mormonism. I am sure he wold love to share his faith more openly, the way Huckebee gets to. He walks a razors edge trying not to irk someone. I stood 100 yards from the podium on the National Mall Saturday and watched Evangelical pastors raising their hands to God and shouting amens during Beck's speech. When the Black Robe Brigade came on stage they nearly had a heart attack. It was amazing.
Glenn Beck is hitting this out of the park.
He is growing bolder in his religious position and he is clear to make it known that it is NOT an issue of which church is right. We need to come together and get behind Beck's message. We need to stop playing the tired game of divisive anti-Mormonism or whatever that plagues our culture. It's an us vs. them mentality.
The only way our churches are going to survive into the next generations is if we espouse Glenn Beck's ideals and the mission he has declared in the last year. You would be a fool, and a tool of Satan, to stir up dirt on Beck's faith now.
I respect what you are trying to do, but if yo had been at the rally in Washington on Saturday as I was you would be ashamed of this post now.
What Mr. Beck and his non-LDS associates are trying to do for this nation is commendable. He is restoring the faith tradition and religious undergirding that established the greatness we have seen in America.
The fact is Gleen Beck has shown remarkable restraint concerning his Mormonism. I am sure he wold love to share his faith more openly, the way Huckebee gets to. He walks a razors edge trying not to irk someone. I stood 100 yards from the podium on the National Mall Saturday and watched Evangelical pastors raising their hands to God and shouting amens during Beck's speech. When the Black Robe Brigade came on stage they nearly had a heart attack. It was amazing.
Glenn Beck is hitting this out of the park.
He is growing bolder in his religious position and he is clear to make it known that it is NOT an issue of which church is right. We need to come together and get behind Beck's message. We need to stop playing the tired game of divisive anti-Mormonism or whatever that plagues our culture. It's an us vs. them mentality.
The only way our churches are going to survive into the next generations is if we espouse Glenn Beck's ideals and the mission he has declared in the last year. You would be a fool, and a tool of Satan, to stir up dirt on Beck's faith now.
Thank you for this concise and accurate article. Your depiction is entirely in line with what Mormon prophets have written. Mormons can try to pretend they don't believe these things, but they can't deny what their prophets have written. Those who don't realize how diabolical Mormonism is are naive and uninformed. I have studied and written on Mormon history and doctrine for enough years to be considered an expert. Joseph Smith was an adulterer, murderer, pedophile and false prophet who killed 2 men in a raging gun battle just before he died. Brigham Young took over and continued the polygamy, murder and castrations that early Mormonism was famous for. Jesus said to beware of false prophets and told us we would know them by their fruits. The Mountain Meadows Massacre, wherein Mormons massacred an entire wagon train and the Wham Paymster robbery of 1890, wherein a dozen Mormons shot 8 soldiers and made off with 30,000 in gold are just two examples of the fruit of Mormonism. Everyone who wants to know about Mormonism should read Wife Number 19 by Ann Eliza Young who was one of Brigham Young's wives. She wrote of the horrors of Mormonism. Mormonism has a different God and a different Jesus and a different gospel and the Apostle Paul said that anyone preaching a different gospel is accursed. Any Christian who embraces Mormonism as "Christian" is making their bed with the serpent. I love Mormons. That's why we must introduce them to the real Jesus, not Satan's brother. Christians who take offense at such a stand would have abandoned Jesus when he took a whip and chased the money-changers out of the temple.
The tragedy of our time is that the church-at-large is biblically illiterate and, therefore, unable to detect error.
Nathan - You should read John Dehlin's “Why People Leave the Church”. If the mormon church removed "members" names from their rolls when members become inactive, the total numbers are actually in decline.
In every other aspect of living, we compare and contrast to reveal the genuine. We promote our sports team as the best, our make of car as the fastest and most feature rich. We scrutinize each others specifications and reveal the flaws of our competition. But when it comes to our differences concerning our faith, Christianity alone is criticized heavily for bringing up even the most blatant, easy to refute errors! One of the first comments quoted "faith without works is dead." Refuting this quote is easy. Faith without works is a dead faith and really not true faith at all. Discussing your faith is a healthy thing and discussing with people who don't share your viewpoint is way to share truth, grow in your faith, and OH MY. . . maybe see yourself as wrong!!!!! It's always interesting to see how quickly Christians are criticized for sharing their faith and how quickly people begin to tell them to shut up. Maybe it's because it is the truth! Maybe its also the reason that different faiths mimic and utilize Christian terminology. Most religions are a leap of faith but Biblical Christianity is a reasonable faith, based on rational thought. It truly fits the world we live in and those who trust Christ as their savior and rest in Him, studying the Bible and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach, nurture, & draw find contentment and great joy, even in the midst of great pain, stress, and suffering. For you own good, try to learn from others when they present a viewpoint that you want to quash. Learning about another viewpoint can be quite a mental challenge and sometimes I find out that the croud isn't always right!! Thanks for reading, Denny, Dad to 8 almost all grown ups and headed for an old 2 seater sports car!
DISCLOSURE: I am an inactive member of the LDS Church (served a mission). I know longer believe in it, nor any faith in fact. -- There is no strong evidence that Native Americans are decedents of Hebrews, to the contrary in fact. Because Christians disagree about what makes one Christian it becomes silly point to make regarding Mormons. They believe salvation comes only through faith in Christ and I find it petty finger pointing. The Christian in-fighting turns so many people off it is a shame. As an LDS Missionary one of the most compelling reasons people investigated was the Mormons they knew. Often described as the most Christian people they knew. BTW, quoting scripture is a terrible way to make a point. If everything Mormon's believed is wrong, but they did believe salvation only comes through Christ and only his blood washes away our sins would they be saved? Isn't this the most common denominator in Christianity?
Hi, Brian: You are right, if everything a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness or a Muslim or a Catholic or Baptist believed is wrong except for the one thing that defines a Christian--it is that salvation only comes through a personal belief in Christ alone and HIS work of salvation FOR us and only his blood will wash away our sins to be declared not guilty before the Father, permanently. There is no mixture of grace + works for salvation: Romans 3:20--"If by grace, it is no longer by works, if it were, grace would no longer be grace.” No one can be saved by grace and still talk about “doing their part.” As a true Christian we gave up our pride thinking we could have a part in our own salvation, and we are depending totally on Christ. A holy, just, and loving God has a right to determine the method to enter into His heaven. A Christian believes and accepts it. After coming to faith, the degree to which we seek and pray for God’s truths and read his Word will renew our minds on many issues affecting our Christian maturity and the degree to which we can be salt and light to each other and to an unbelieving world.
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
(Galatians 1:8)
Kurtis and Whitney,
Exactly what Mormon doctrines did he "grossly" misrepresent. I have studied Mormonism for 30 years from primary source materials, teach comparative religions and cults in seminary, have extensively dialogued with missionareis, stake presidents, general authorities, and even was a guest speaker at an annual Religion Writers conference with the then "Prophet" Gordon Hinkley. These LDS doctrinal descriptions are correct.
I hope you don't spend another thirty years studying Mormons and not understand that Mormons believe Jesus to be divine. Thats kind of funny in a sad kind of way.
http://paulmarcelrene.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/mormonism-and-christianity/
http://paulmarcelrene.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/christian-group-that-admits-lds-are-christians-too/
Beck supports Mitt RINO Romneycare-Mormon crony-enough said.
You've got to love that folks who have never commented on this blog (or much less read it) have the gall to come here and call the author of this post a liar and accuse him of bigotry, using different names to write the same exact post. That's telling of the mindset we're dealing with.
This post was a fairly accurate portrayal of Mormonism, and the follow up more so. Beck's disregard for historical accuracy was noted by Dr. James White last year when Beck opined on the Council of Nicea claiming it was when the good books of the bible were thrown out. I'm thankful to God for solid Biblical teaching that warns the flock of wolves like these.
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